This is an audio conversation between Malwan Johnson, international director of social action for Phi Beta Sigma Fraternity, Incorporated, and Dr. Rafael Matos, Perspectives editorial board member. A transcript of the conversation is provided below.
About the Authors
Malwan Johnson is the International Director of Social Action for Phi Beta Sigma Fraternity, Incorporated. Prior to his current position, Johnson served as a state director and as the Eastern Region Director of Social Action for Phi Beta Sigma Fraternity, Incorporated. An experienced wireless networking engineer, Johnson has bachelor’s degrees in business administration and computer information systems from Towson University, a master’s degree in information technology and a graduate certificate in Information Assurance from the University of Maryland Global Campus, and a host of industry certifications.
Rafael Matos, Ph.D., earned his bachelor’s and master’s degrees from the University of Southern California, and a doctorate in Communication Media and Instructional Technology from Indiana University of Pennsylvania. Matos has worked on various college campuses, ranging from small liberal arts to large public institutions, where he effectively connected with students and engaged them in critical conversations. He has served as a consultant to national fraternities and sororities and is a speaker and facilitator who has impacted thousands of people across the country. He is a life member of Phi Beta Sigma Fraternity, Inc.
Interview transcript below:
Rafael Matos (DRM): Well, welcome to this issue of Perspectives where we are focusing on social activism. I’m very excited about this topic for this issue because I get to talk to one of my fraternity brothers who excels in the social activism area. I’m talking about my well also, I get to work with our Board of Directors, which we call our General Board. He is an international director of social action, Brother Malwan Johnson. Brother Johnson, now, can you please introduce yourself for our listeners?
Malwan Johnson (MJ): Absolutely. And I appreciate you having me on. Like you said, my name is Malwan Johnson. I am the international director of social action for Phi Beta Sigma Fraternity, Incorporated, the greatest fraternity of all. You know, just a little bit about me. I am a senior wireless network architect. I’ve been doing this for over 20 years.
I initiated into Phi Beta Sigma Fraternity, Incorporated at Towson University back in the spring of 2000, so I just turned 24 years this past March 12th. You know, some of the things that led me to becoming a member of Phi Beta Sigma and it kind of charted my path and course of how I got to where I am now is through their motto, culture for service and service for humanity. That motto resonated with me when I was at the interest meeting back as a young 20-year-old college athlete because in high school when I was 14 years old, you know, I had a tragedy where I got shot by one of my teammates.
And taking sports away from me was one of the hardest things that I’ve dealt with in my life and finding another avenue of how I can use my talents. I joined several church organizations. I joined a lot of community service-based organizations. I was in an honor society. That we used to go to the elementary schools on base and, you know, just participate in that after school programs. I was in future leaders – Future Business Leaders of America -and just doing community service work in absence of playing sports was something that, you know, got me through those dark times when I was just a 14-year-old freshman in high school. And so, you know, transitioning, recovering, being able to go to college and attend college, it was just something missing.
Because at that time, sports just wasn’t, you know, I kind of recognized that sports wasn’t just everything in my life, right? Especially when I dealt with a whole year of it not being there. And so, when I start to seek, you know, what else I can do will contribute on a campus at Towson University, I had several teammates, you know, kind of introduced me to uh Phi Beta Sigma and then, you know, the history is just, you know, kind of that right? It’s just like one of those things once you got into that room and they, you know, they showed you the legacies that we have and in the areas of social action, just exuding the motto right with brotherhood scholarship and service, and service being a part of that. It just, you know from a principle standpoint, everything came kind of came full circle in terms of that service piece. And um, especially in the model and principles and they kind of you saw that you saw the work that they did on campus and that’s it just completed my whole collegiate career just filling that void that I felt my sophomore year. So that’s a little bit about me.
DRM: Wow, I mean, you want to talk about resilience. Just talk about being shot and just to go through that trauma and to be able to find a way to heal yourself from there. Like, that is, that’s remarkable just by itself. And I think something that’s probably just as remarkable is just your ascension into the current role. Social action makes sense to us but can you describe to a view, to our listeners at home who maybe are not familiar with our social action program. What exactly is social action about?
MJ: Yeah, I mean, social action I always affectionately call it the heartbeat of our fraternity. It encompasses so much, whether we’re talking about advocacy, whether we’re talking about men’s health, whether we’re talking about social discriminants of health, whether we’re talking about, you know, our partners, that we help, whether it’s, you know, St. Jude, whether it’s American Cancer, whether it’s sickle cell disease, Association of America, whether it’s the Urban League, NAACP, black health matters, you know it’s an all-encompassing program that, you know, you can literally do a social action program 365 days a year and you won’t repeat anything. It’s always something to do, For us specifically, I like to say that, you know, our vision for the program is for our members to be socially conscious, community focused brothers that will be in, that would lead and be a voice for change, equality, equity and justice, and because that is the true essence of social activism, and being that we are a fraternity of college educated men, I just think that anytime that we can get involved in anything that’s directly affecting those communities and the folks in the communities, it’s just always a good thing.
DRM: Well, thank you for sharing and yeah, I have to agree with you. We do it well. We do it better than anybody else, I think. And what I can tell you as a headquarters staff person when I get to look at the data and look at the hours and the submission of programs, our members really do take that social activism piece very seriously. We’ll come back to that in a moment, but this is an elected position. And so I don’t want to gloss over the fact that it’s its been a road to get to this point. Phi Beta Sigma has three programs: big and better business, social action, and education. And quite honestly, you’re very qualified to do any of those three programs. But you chose social action and you started to talk a little bit about that. What about your fraternity trajectory led you to believe that this is the place where you can affect the most change?
MJ: Yeah, man, uh, you know, like I said, you know, the social action piece is what really drove me to join Phi Beta Sigma along with just not knowing, you know, all the D9 organizations, the male organizations, we kind of similarly do the same thing. But when you look at what Phi Beta Sigma’s history is, and those who have been a part of every at every turn of our civil rights movement, you know, you saw a Sigma there. And so, it was one of those things where, you know, it just resonated with me and in my time, you know, as the chapter president of my undergrad chapter, I was the NAA, I mean, the NPHC president, where we, one of the things that I did was set up for our NPHC local to go to a middle school and we just participated in their after school care and we also in Baltimore City, also participated in the group, so we had a brother that did halfway houses and he also took in little kids. And so, one of those things that we did was try to show them a different way. Show them that they can kind of be on a college campus like we were because oftentimes when you look at inner city kids or just people that at the at youth or the trouble youth, it’s they’re a product of their environment. They’re seeing their cousins, their uncles, their fathers on the street. And so, you know what, what other way do they have but to think that they’re going to be exactly like them, right? And so, I felt like it was important for us to kind of show them that they can do something different. Right. And so, as a state director of Maryland, the great state of Maryland, you know, one of the things that, you know, through our sigma day of service, just having all of the chapters come together to feed the homeless – it’s just impactful, man. You know, and then even from the state director position to then deciding to run for the regional director of social action. That journey led me just because at that time, you know, I just felt like my work as state director wasn’t done and, while I love being a state director for four years doing different things, doing blue and white nights in Annapolis, advocating for, you know, the communities that we serve, trying to be that voice for the voiceless, because during that time 2016-2020, you know, we had a lot of civil unrest that was going on. Right. And we don’t need to rehash that. But that just, you know, being in that moment. Being in those positions during those times, it really highlighted that the work that you were doing was very impactful. Seeing how you can galvanize a group of men to lead efforts for change, be, you know, that that kind of pillar that people look to to kind of give them direction on how you march, how you protest, how do you peacefully protest, how do you get your points across, how do you advocate for local issues?
And it’s just impactful. And so that led me to the region because at that point, I’m like, listen, you know the work that I did in Maryland, I can now bring to a region and be more impactful, right? And ultimately that led me to where I am sitting today. It’s just always been impact with me. It’s never been about the position. It’s really just been about the work and the impact that that work kind of yields and I think that’s what drives me today. That’s been what’s driving me for the last 24 years as I was transcended from, you know, a collegiate president to now sitting on the International Board, one that 24 years ago, if you asked me if this was going to be my trajectory, I would’ve probably told you no, but life just has a way of just, you know, showing you, you know, where your impact can be. So, you hear that impact is always in there for me, right? So that’s just what drives me today.
DRM: And you keep saying impact, but one thing that I want to hone in on that I hear you as you talked about, just even your upbringing, is passion. You have a passion for making life better for the rest of us. And I want to thank you for that, because I clearly see in the work that you do. So, Phi Beta Sigma, and we’re not, we’re not, we’re not new to this. We’re true to this. We, social action has been in existence and it’s our 90th year for our social action program. So how do you think that Phi Beta Sigma has managed to keep, uh, social action relevant for so many years?
MJ: I mean, you know, the thing about this, you said it, right, right? We’re true to this and I made mention of this earlier about just every step of the way. I mean, you know, when you go back to even like a George Eggers, who in his life, you know, fled Nazi Germany, right. in 1938 to kind of come over to the University of Chicago to get his PhD to eventually join in our wonderous band in 1953. This is a white man joining the Black male fraternity. Who was a lifelong civil rights activist, you know, working with the NAACP to actually bring that lawsuit that desegregated Little Rock School District. To him, paving that way and seeing the impact that he could make, right, coming over to the US. Right. Seeing that this is something that is a cause that he can get behind. Right. And then moving from him to the likes of A. Philip Randolph to John Lewis to Hosea Williams. You know, just to, it’s just we’re filled with these individuals who, who just at every turn, you know, just put their bodies – If you think about Bloody Sunday and John Lewis and Hosea Williams sitting right there leading them, that group across the Edmund Pettus Bridge, and the A Philip Randolph’s who were, you know, focused on funding and making sure that that the March on Washington actually happened, to the Huey P. Newtons with the Black Panther Party, to just the Elijah Cummings of the world, the Al Sharpton’s of the world. Like this, just Phi Beta Sigma, whether it’s the Civil Rights movement, whether it was the Million Man March, whether it’s now what we’re talking about, what the impact that nan’s doing. To what even our local, you know, our President is doing, our immediate past President has done. I mean, we’ve always been there at every turn when it came to the civil unrest, whether it be peaceful or not, right? Because I know some of those past people have got locked or, you know, went to jail for various reasons, peacefully demonstrating and all. I just think that Phi Beta Sigma over the last 90 years, because we will be celebrating 90 years in December, we’ve just had, you know, if you look at the African kings, right, like, I mean we just have a rich history full of men that was about this work, and that makes me smile and that gives me the energy and the passion that I need to continue doing the job that I have been blessed with as your international Director of Social Action.
DRM: And a great job you’re doing, indeed. And one of the things that I want to hone in on that you spoke about, right, Phi Beta Sigma gives a platform for its members to do what they are already doing, amplify that. And to our organization, listening at home, right, I want you to keep that in mind. You have members already doing the work. Elevate those members to be able to get to the forefront and make deep impacts in their communities and society. So thank you for sharing that. So, this perspective issue is about social activism. How do you define social activism in the context of fraternal organizations?
MJ: The social activism, you know, it’s about movements. I think it’s about movements that is addressing community needs from a particular social group. So when you look at the plight that we were dealing with slavery and how we were treated, whether we couldn’t even vote, when we were three fifths of a vote, and, you know, having people stand up against that, movement, you know, you know the Civil Rights Act and making sure that we, and the voter Rights Act, right. And so again, that social justice activism is addressing those type of issues. And I always like to say to be the voice for the voiceless. Right. And as you said, or as I’ve talked to you about the vision, right, it’s also talking about dealing with inequities and the equalities of individuals in the communities, especially the ones that we serve. When we talk about whether it’s political or social issue, I think it’s a need for that level of activism. In terms of fraternities, you know, we over the years have, over the last three years, even, you know, we’ve partnered together with all the male organizations of the Divine 9. And, you know, we’ve come together in DC to talk about, you know, how we can engage, right, our members to get out the vote and how we can take that and train our members to then go out to their communities to make sure that their voices are being heard at the ballot box. I think you know the sit ins that they did back in the day is a, was a great form of activism. The walkouts that college students have done in the past when they saw that their university wasn’t treating them the way that they thought they should be treated, you know? The marches, the rallies, just couple weeks ago we had a youth rally, right, where we were trying to engage the millennials, the Gen. Y Gen. Z age groups, right? Because those are the next folks that are coming up that’s going to impact the elections, right, whether it be the one that’s happening this year or the ones that’s happening after this year, right. And so, those kind of things, as we look throughout our history, is why I think it’s very important for all organizations to stand up and have their voices be heard when it comes to activism.
DRM: Thank you so much for sharing and you talk about Gen Z’ers and the first person that comes to mind is one of our newer members, Congressman Frost, Maxwell Frost. Definitely Gen Z’er, first Gen Z’er to get elected to Congress and he is out there making moves and just making positive impacts and just in government. So, thank you for sharing that. Some fraternities and sororities, they think that engaging in social issues, and specifically around political issues, may pose a threat to their nonprofit status.
So, when you hear that, how do you respond to those concerns?
MJ: Yeah. So one of the things that, you know, I did as director was launch a let’s talk politics series. And last year we had one, the very first one that we did was kind of like defining that divide. A lot of our organizations have C-4s. They have PACs and I think that that’s a great thing because as you mentioned, right, we have a nonprofit status as an organization. And what that doesn’t allow us to do is to actually endorse or advocate for a specific candidate. And I think the way that I wanted to address that is through education. It was a great webinar. Chapters really got engaged. I brought on our Sigma PAC1914 to make sure that we drew the line, right, that there’s a line that our fraternities can go up to when we’re talking about issues affecting their communities and getting out to whether they wanted to support candidates or not. Can they or not, right. And that’s where that line goes, right?
As a member of your community, you can certainly support whatever candidate you want, but when your chapter is doing a program, that’s where that line is going, right? Because now you’re under the banner of Phi Beta Sigma, which means that, hey, you can host a candidate and I, you know, definitely support chapters hosting candidate forums, but just make sure that they’re in a, not in a bipartisan way. So don’t just invite the Democrats, right. You need to invite the Republicans too, because at the end of the day, you know, whether we differ on policies between the two parties, one of them is going to get elected, and we’re going to have to work with either one of them to continually try to advocate for the communities that we serve. And so, from a fraternity or a D9 perspective, we need to always be conscious of that. We need to make sure that we’re utilizing our PACs and our C-4s to push those issues that, you know, are concerning, right, and let and leverage them to raise money and to endorse candidates and making sure that those candidates that support the issues that we have as fraternities and sororities, that they use, that we use them as the vehicle to make sure that we’re electing the people that address our concerns. But from a fraternity and sorority standpoint, we just need to make sure that we’re educating our chapters to not get, you know, caught into that, that, that, that deep water where we’re actually advocating and potentially can seen as endorsing one specific candidate, whether they’re part of our organization or not, right? And I think that all the elected officials understand that. And so, you know, even if we’re inviting one of them, just making sure that, and I tell our chapters all the time, right, like you mentioned Congressman Frost, you know, he’s in one of our chapters, but if he’s going to be talking about issues that are in the Capital, or his reelection, you know, a lot of brothers want to go out and work on his campaign and they absolutely can do that as an individual. But as a chapter, we need to make sure that we’re very clear that that’s not a direct endorsement, regardless of whether he’s a part of our organization or not.
DRM: Thank you. So what I understood from what you said is that as fraternal organizations, we should, our focus should be to raise awareness and encourage people to become involved and present the issues of the day in the different perspectives. As organizations. But as individuals, we can just support whatever we want to support.
Thank you for sharing that. Now, we talked about political issues. This year is an election year, so what best practices would you share with fraternities and sororities that they can engage and utilize at their regional or national level?
MJ: You know, from there, we’re ready to launch, uh well we did launch, it’s called our Sigma Impact 365 Blue Boots on the Ground Campaign. And, you know, with that program, you know, our focus is to make sure that we’re being transformative and make sure that we’re fortifying our community engagement. We always say voter education, registration, and mobilization, and I really want to make sure that our chapters are prepared with the tools, the necessary tools, the necessary guides to make sure that we’re not having a bunch of chapters doing different things, right. And so I think from our standpoint, from a regional international standpoint, it’s basically making sure that we’re providing those guides, making sure that we’re training our chapters to be good stewards in their communities. Making sure that they’re doing impactful work and through grassroots efforts too as well, because I think a lot of times when we engage in elections, it’s always the, you know, we’re targeting people who already are going to be voting right. And so I encourage our chapters to actually look at data that’s going to support where they doing their voter registration drives, right? And so finding those communities where, you know, you have low voter turnout and then going into those communities to do your voter registration and your voter education, because it’s not enough just to register people to vote. We’ve been registering people to vote since 1965, right, through all those campaigns.
I think in today’s climate, and we’re so divisive, I think right now it’s about focusing on that educational component and that mobilization component. Because we can do registration very well. We do that very well. But given a voter, the reason why they should vote other than it’s just their Constitutional right to vote, I think that’s what we need to focus on because that’s what’s going to get or keep a person to stand in line. Cause we know that they’re strategically closing polls in communities, right, that don’t have the means to get to all these other polling locations, right? There’s a reason why they’re doing that. And so as we’re combatting those kind of voting determinants, right, that’s keeping people from voting I think we just need to make sure that we’re harping on why and what’s at stake, right? And so I think that’s one of the key focuses that I wanna, you know, and impose on our chapters is giving people a why. So don’t just register them, but actually talk to them. Right. Talk to them about the candidates. All the candidates. Talk to them about the issues, making sure that they are aware of what’s a federal issue, what’s a state issue, and what’s a local issue as well. Right? Because a lot of people have a lot of local issues and then think that the president’s gonna be able to solve them for. That pot hole that’s in your street that you didn’t flatten your tires couple of times. That’s not President Biden’s. That’s not – he didn’t do that. And he can’t fix it either. Right? But that local Congress, that local official, whether it be your Township person, whether it be your County Executive or, you know, those kind of individuals that’s on the local level, those are the ones that’s gonna fix that road for you, right? And so, making sure that we’re educating the community on what those issues are because some people’s gripes are very local. And I think all politics start locally, but we also need to make sure that that doesn’t keep them from voting in the state and federal elections because they’re so disenfranchised from the local issues that they’re that they’re facing.
DRM: Wow, thank you so much for sharing that. That was very insightful. So, if I’m understanding you correctly at the national level or regional level, fraternal organizations can focus on providing resources for their members to understand how to deliver the programs for our chapters at the local level. I like what you said, that education and keeping voters aware, helping them understand the different issues and giving them that why, right. You know, you know what to say. Start with the why. Why is that they should be engaged in the election process. Now, because as fraternities, we also exist on college campuses, and many of our listeners are fraternity sorority advisors on college campuses. What practices or tips or advice can you provide to our campus partners who advise fraternities and sororities to help them guide our chapters on – or all chapters on their campuses on how they can get involved with election process?
MJ: You know that’s also, and I didn’t want to be remiss by leaving out mobilization as well. I think mobilization is key. Stroll to the polls. early voting, carpooling to get people who don’t have rides, you know, that rely on the bus services to the polls. I think that’s absolutely critical to that piece. I don’t want to leave that part out. But when we talk about college campuses, you know, some of those individuals are going to be first time voters, and I think that from a chapter standpoint, an NPHC standpoint, or even just as an advisor, whether you’re advisor to a chapter or the advisor to the overall NPHC, I think making sure that those students are educated in the political process and also making it a fun thing.
I was talking to one of our – Collegiate Member at Large Thompson – and he was talking about how they stroll to the polls. They actually, like, all the D9 lined up. They started strolling on campus and then they kind of marched a little bit and strolled right over to the polls, and they made it a thing. And what he said was very intriguing to me. It was that because so many people are kind of like, when they start strolling, they just kind of congregate. They didn’t really know what they were doing, right. They had signs, but they never just, they didn’t connect the two, right. They didn’t connect the stroll to the polls to them actually going to the polling location. And so what he found was, is that they started strolling on campus, they got a group, then they started marching to the polls, and because the group was just following the music and following and seeing all their friends that were in the D9 fraternities and sororities strolling, that once they got to the polls, they had no they had no, you know, they were already there, right. So it’s kind of like, hey, now, now you’re here now let’s vote, right?
And that’s when they made the connection, the students. Right. And so, I think that’s just a fun, innovative way to get a group of students to follow their NPHC leaders to do something that they probably normally probably wouldn’t have done. They probably weren’t going to vote that day. But because you had a group of NPHC leaders and groups strolling and that just attracted the crowd. You know, you turned into just them- the people that were strolling to vote. Now you have a group of onlookers, right, on campus to actually now voting with them. So I think that is a good thing, right, stroll to the polls. Very innovative that we can do. As advisors, bring in candidates, forums to college campuses.
Virginia State University is going to host candidate forums, right? I think that kind of impact at your colleges and universities is huge. To actually see a debate on a college campus, right. And then realize that, hey, my campus ain’t no different than Virginia State. Why can’t we bring these officials on our campus to talk about real issues that are affecting us, right. And they’re giving us the reason why. And so I think as advisors, one of the things that we can absolutely do is never to stop educating, making sure that we’re making it like an everyday topic around how we can better our communities and realizing who should be accountable for that.
So if you voted for somebody and he promised you that they were going to give your school, you know, funding to support whatever programs that they have, and they don’t do that? Well, you need to hold them accountable, making sure that you actually have a date when they’re in session. Right? That Towson University Day in Annapolis, right, to say, hey, we see what you’re spending your money on and it ain’t going to the programs that we want over here. And to hold that elected official accountable for that. I think accountability is huge and I think we have a huge responsibility, and we play a critical role into making sure that our kids in college understand that and making sure that we’ve given them the support for them to actually speak up, you know, for those issues.
DRM: That was very deep what you just shared, and you talk about strolling to the polls. Like to me, it’s like it’s a different take on social action. You truly being social to get to mobilize and get to the students to participate in the election process. But three things that you said – you’re talking about campus partners can encourage our students, our members, the chapters that they advise to think of programs that they can do themselves. Uh, you talked about our campus-based professionals, right? We educate them on leadership development. We can incorporate that into that as well and providing them with resources and tools and helping to create forums where they can educate. If there’s one thing that we can do as campus professionals, it’s that education piece.
And then the other part you said is providing them with support and just being there in that encouragement. So it’s not just helping them to think of progress, but just their ongoing support and encouragement to continue to do the work. So I appreciate you dropping that knowledge on us.
Of course, you know, one of the challenges that come from being so good. And I remember seeing the impact that we make, they want us to be involved with everything. I watch how you move and how you keep our social action program focused on the things that we agreed to do and the things that make sense for the fraternity to get involved with. So what recommendations would you make for national regional leadership of fraternities and sororities to help them address members’ requests to get involved with all social issues that the members deem important?
MJ: So I think we need to be innovative. I think we need to stay innovative. I think that we need to find ways to meet people where they’re at. You know, we’re all college educated, but sometimes that can be perceived as, you know, we know too much. So we’re talking over people’s heads, right? And I think that sometimes we need to make sure that our message is gonna resonate with that guy on the stoop, resonate with that person waiting on the bus, resonate with that individual that is working two jobs and not just talking over them, right, and addressing the issues. While we may be talking about, hey, we’re going to raise minimum wage and, hey, we’re going to, you know, make sure that we have a safe community. If we’re not talking to those individuals, to them that just looks like smoke and mirrors.
And I think sometimes that, you know, we stay on our platforms a little bit too much and I think that’s where our local chapters, our local universities, through our partnerships on – in – those in those communities, can actually be beneficial. Because they know exactly who those people are. I think that it’s important for us to engage those individuals. So it’s not enough for your chapter just to – or for them, for me, for my position here, just to say hey chapters, I want you to do a candidates forum, and again I know we talked about providing those that guide for them to be able to say hey, this is how you do a candidates forum. But I think you also need to go a step further and tell that chapter, listen, don’t just invite D9 to this candidate forum. You need to actually go and get members of your community and make sure they are at this candidate forum, because that’s how you’re going to get that impact, right. And as trusted messengers, because a lot of us, you know, we’re local leaders, we do a lot of good work. We’re on, like, for you on college campuses, we’re advising these people, and the support that I was really talking about is allowing those individuals to have a voice.
It’s just not enough, for example, for you to take your NPHC down to your state capital and show them how the process works, how bills become laws, and then watch you advocate for a bill about your university. No, what you need to do is empower them to actually speak. And you sit back, right. Because that’s the, that’s the support.
And again, what I was talking about with the candidate forum. We need to empower the community to speak. It’s not enough for them just to invite us to the candidate’s forum and then don’t let them have a voice and just let us just moderate the thing. No, that’s not. That’s not what we need to do. We need to make sure that we’re providing the support to allow them to, cause again, you know, remember I said the voice for the voiceless, and I agree that we can be a voice for the voiceless. At the same time, I think it’s a balance where we need to make sure that we are actually allowing those who we are saying that we support to actually advocate for themselves and we support them in doing that.
DRM: I like that, right, that the organization doesn’t have to be involved in everything. It doesn’t mean we should stop our members from finding those opportunities to engage in those things that they deem important. That was well said, and I really appreciate you sharing that. So, uh, you know, we’re at the close and I really appreciate your time or any other pearls of wisdom you want to drop on us before we close out.
MJ: You know, I always say as I close a lot of my speak, my speeches or messages that I deliver that if you’re, that, you know, politics is not a spectator sport. You know, it encourages everyone to get in the game. We have to stay in the game. It’s just important for us to stay in the game and I also say if your presence doesn’t make an impact, your absence won’t make a difference. I know you’ve heard me say that before, cause again, you have to show up and when you show up, you just don’t show up and say, hey, I was here for a photo opp. You actually show up with the goal of making that impact, because when you’re not there, you know it won’t make a difference if you didn’t show up and actually make an impact, right? You were just there for a photo opp. And I think a lot of people take too many photo ops.
So those two nuggets are what I’ll leave you with. You know politics is not a spectator sport, encourage everybody to get into game, and if your presence doesn’t make an impact, your absence won’t make a difference. I’ll leave you with those two quotes.
DRM: Brother Johnson, always it is a pleasure and honor to listen to you to, to work with you, and just to be in your presence. And I thank you for what you do for the fraternity, but more importantly, I thank you for what you do for society and uplifting our communities. To our listeners out there, thank you very much for tuning in for this episode of Perspectives. And we look forward to seeing you at our next issue. So thank you very much.
MJ: Thank you.
