About the Interviewee
Dr. Julia Wade (she/her) currently serves as director of generative dialogue and restorative practices at Loyola Marymount University. Her research and practice interests include restorative culture building and implementation of restorative practices in higher education settings, evaluation of implementation efforts in addition to restorative justice responses to student sexual misconduct. he received her doctorate in educational leadership from the University of California Los Angeles.
Transcript
Isabella Ferrante (IF): Hi everyone. My name is Isabella Ferrante. I use she/her pronouns, and I’m on the editorial board for AFA Perspectives. I currently work at Loyola Marymount University in Los Angeles, and super excited today to be joined by Julia Wade. Julia is a colleague of mine here at LMU, but today we’re going to talk about restorative justice and how you can potentially infuse restorative justice into your work as an FSL professional, and just giving some context of what Julia and I have worked on as well, but Julia, I’ll pass it over to you if you can introduce yourself and maybe just give an overview of the work that you do here and your position here at LMU.
Julia Wade (JW): Yeah, so hi, lovely to be with you, Isabella. So yeah, my name is Julia Wade. I use she/her pronouns, and I’ve been at LMU for 13 years in different capacities, but since 2019 I have worked as our Associate Director for restorative practices. So currently, based out of our conduct office, but happy to report I’ll be transitioning into a new role as our Director of Generative Dialog and Restorative Practices, and so that will be under our new Associate Vice President for Student Success and Belonging that we’re hiring. So I’ll be in more of kind of like an equity and inclusion, like frame and so with the role that I’ve done now, it’s, you know, focused more so on restorative justice practices and like harm repair so related to like student behavior. And, you know, when harm happens on campus, how can we use, like, restorative justice to address that harm? And the new rule, it’ll just give me a little bit more space to continue to focus on those, like proactive elements of restorative justice, so more like what I would call restorative justice practices. So before harm happens. How are we talking about building community on campus and or using restorative justice practices as a tool around community building, and then also, you know, pieces focused around kind of dialog across difference, and what we’ve talked about on campus here as like generative dialog. How can dialogues be generative? How do we work through conflict in a way that doesn’t isolate people, but helps them build skills and brings us more together? And so, like, in you know, that role, and in my role now, I’ve kind of been involved with some aspects of like training or offering like workshops and professional development for like, students and staff and even faculty sometimes, and then having a frame just around, like, conflict, engagement, right? So, like, how we engage conflict, more generally, on campus, and then help people, kind of, like, build skills and capacity to engage in conflict in a way that’s productive. And then just, yeah, like collaboration, so with folks like you and all the staff and our, you know, sorority and fraternity life here and across other departments of Student Affairs, and then really, like other departments in the university where there has been, like, space, time and interest too. That’s what a little bit of my role has looked like, and will look like in the future.
IF: Awesome. Thank you. And I think all so relevant to the work that we do in fraternity and sorority life as well, like the things you were talking about with conflict and harm repair, it’s all very relevant to our area, and I think that’s how we’ve really seen a partnership between our two areas and our work, and also just helping kind of bring this idea of restorative justice to students so that they can kind of understand what the value in it is as well,
JW: Yeah, and I think to be most successful, we do need that kind of, like, shared, you know, community language, too. And so that’s, I think, always a challenge or a barrier. Like, does everyone have a similar understanding of what it is when we talk about, like, restorative justice, or restorative justice practices? And then do people really see this as a tool, or are we kind of reliant on more punitive models or models that are going to cause people more harm. So yeah, absolutely.
IF: And I think it’s also important to mention that we do have a focus on restorative justice practices at LMU in general, just because of our mission statement and other things. But why do you feel like restorative justice is important to you and the work that you’re specifically doing?
JW: Yeah, I mean, I think I was also going to talk about, like, maybe a couple of different things so, and that’s one of them, like, is just our you know, how I see myself situated in this specific institution, because I think there’s a calling from a Catholic background from this institution, and more specifically, a Jesuit background, to honor, you know, like the dignity of the whole person, and some of those fundamentals that are like, at the core of who we are. So that’s part of what is important to me. Like, I found alignment between doing this work and what and how I participate in this institution, or, like, what this institution calls me to do and but like, I imagine that there’s also a lot of resonance for other people with their institutional missions and some of like the fundamentals of like restorative justice. So it might not be articulated like, you know, dignity of the person, or solidarity or ways that we do in our Jesuit lens, but other people might have other lenses that intersect with, or have overlap with, some of the values and principles of restorative justice, like, you know, community building, trust and community, you know, like, just to kind of name a few. So that’s like one level. I think, you know, for me, this is also just about, kind of my personal values and, like, what’s important to me personally, so just with an orientation around forgiveness, so forgiving other people, but I often kind of talk about without being too cheesy, like, you know, restorative justice has brought me on my own little like healing journey toward, like self forgiveness. So like, how am I kind to myself? How do I see opportunities for restoration and renewal, like no matter what I’ve done or who I’ve been, you know, not without taking accountability and trying to hold myself accountable, but that like forgiveness, which is often part of restorative justice, not always, is like a personal grounding for me. So, you know, the personal, the institutional, and then I do feel like at a certain point, or I’ve come to this place in this work where it’s also a little bit about what I feel like the world needs, right? And I have that kind of larger lens, or I try to keep that in mind, especially when things are hard of like, what frame around, like, justice and accountability? Do I want to be a part of and do I want to influence or introduce as an educator? Do I want to send out, you know, into the world and so for me, that’s more in alignment with restorative justice than like traditional modes of justice, punishment, and, you know, in a culture where either real accountability is not happening, or performative accountability or cancel it, like there’s just so many negative things I think are still happening in the world. So I try to and want to have a vision and try to create opportunities to allow people and myself to be part of something else.
IF: That is so awesome. Thank you so much for sharing a little bit of your personal philosophy and your personal connection to the work too. But you brought up accountability, which is something that us as FSAs and fraternity/sorority professionals, we talk about a lot, is accountability, and how are we creating cultures of accountability with the fraternities and sororities that we work with? From your point of view, where do you see that accountability and restorative justice kind of coming together for our fraternities and sororities?
JW: Yeah, I mean, I think it’s a great question.I mean, I think one thing that I think of immediately is just how you know, restorative justice frames accountability, right? And there’s like, a lot of amazing people that talk about this, but, you know, restorative justice thinks about accountability with, like, a high degree of structure and a high degree of support. So I think with other models of accountability. Sometimes there’s either not a lot of support, and then we just expect people to be able to, like, figure things out, or like show up in a way that’s better, or there’s not a lot of structure. So again, we haven’t given people, like, language tools or like, I guess, not given them, but like, supported them in developing those kind of elements. So when I think about the importance of that, like, you know, restorative model, it’s how are we providing structure, or supporting groups in creating structure, and I realized I just said support, but then also keeping in mind that support piece, right? So, like, what does it look like to, you know, surround people with care when they don’t make the best decision, right? Or there? I mean, I think there’s many ways that can, that support can look but that’s just like one example, or provide them with resources when we identify what an issue or a problem is.
IF: I feel like the chapters when we’ve had conduct problems pop up exactly like you said, like their point of view is that they’re not getting that support that they need through the process where they didn’t make great decisions, but they end up feeling “okay, what, what do I do now? And like, just trying to create that supportive network, like you were saying, and kind of shifting the narrative of what, what it’s like to be held accountable for your actions.
JW: Yeah. And then, I mean, you know, this could, like, start to transition us, but then I think we’ve also tried to create opportunities for to hold space for students in the community to talk to each other about what accountability looks like, you know, like, instead of us saying, right, like, this is what accountability like? What is it like? Or, you know, inviting them to a conversation to consider, what does accountability look like in your chapter? What does it look like for the different councils? Let’s really, like, examine that together, and like, maybe honor some of the wisdom that might be good, you know, and then where there might be room for growth and kind of challenge them in that. So that’s kind of something else that I was thinking about too.
IF: Yeah, and we’ve, we’ve started doing that through the community building circle workshops that we’re doing with our general members, which I feel like is the easiest way to introduce this concept of restorative justice to students is just having that community building space. And we’ve done these workshops and developed them in a way of having those conversations that focus on accountability, and the next month, it’s how are you engaged with your campus community, and having that like problem solving, community building moment, which I feel like has worked really well for us, and I think also could be replicated for other professionals who are wondering, how do we, how can we infuse this into our work?
JW: Yeah, so yeah, and that circle practice, so, like a circle is a process, right? That brings people together to talk about things that are important to them, usually with, like, a facilitator, right, who has had some trainer understanding of these practices. And then it invites and gives everyone in the circle an opportunity to speak. So, right? We follow a circle order; we set norms or agreements for the space. We may use a talking piece to signify who’s speaking, and it’s participatory. It breaks down hierarchy, right? Because we’re all coming to that, that space, you know, in that physical connection of a circle, but you know, not with someone in a space of authority by the very nature of like,how it looks, and how we sit with one another. And it’s, it’s definitely based in indigenous practices and people all over the world, right, who have utilized restorative practices and indigenous practices to make decisions in community to engage in problem solving. So yeah, that circle practice has been, I think, critical to introduce people both to like what RJ is, because we usually do that at the top of those workshops, and then shift to like and what’s our topic for today, right? Sometimes it’s been like a community conversation around alcohol and drugs. Sometimes it’s been around accountability. Sometimes it’s been around like, you know, innovation, collaboration and yeah, really inviting people to again, share community wisdom and also just, yeah, a shared space to build community in ways that they might not have.
IF: Yeah, thank you for the overview of circle practice. I think that really helps kind of tie everything together of a lot of the work that we’re doing. And I feel like everyone who’s either listening or watching this knows that it’s so difficult sometimes to get students in those spaces to really conversate and have a productive dialog. But just from our personal experiences, we’ve had such great feedback from those workshops. And even if the students aren’t tangibly thinking like, Oh, I did restorative justice today, they can walk away from that knowing that they gain something from the conversation, and we’re building genuine connection. So I’ve seen how it’s definitely worked really well for us, too.
JW: Yeah, yeah. And then I think, you know, the other kind of places that we’ve explored that community building aspect, probably more so with, like, our sororities around like community building and like sisterhood and like, again, not trying to replace anything that they’re already doing, just offering, like, another tool for like, Okay, well, let’s talk about what you’re doing around community and like, if people don’t know people’s names, like in the chapter, then we might not be building that strong foundation, you know.And so offering, you know, like a community building circle as a tool, and even introducing some groups to just like this, the philosophy around restorative practices and kind of what that means for how we treat each other in a community buildings or in a space, in a community space, or community organization, excuse me, those have been, I think, ways that have been pretty successful too. And then, I don’t know if you have any thoughts about that Isabella or we could kind of transition to how, how we’ve thought about restorative practices on that more like problem solving, harm repair lens as well.
IF: Yeah, that’s sort of where I wanted to go next, of just how you touched on it with the sororities and some of the work that you’ve done with them, of, you know, post recruitment and trying to build community after, you know, recruitment can be really rough on the women that are going through it, but also the chapters who are putting on this recruitment to get new members, and there can be harm there. So I feel like the work that you’ve done in the past has been really helpful, and I’d love for you to talk about that, just so that other FSAs who are maybe like listening can see how we’ve done that and how you can integrate that into the harm repair piece when it’s an interpersonal moment?
JW: Sure, yeah. I mean, I think at least with the sororities, it’s like, there’s, it’s kind of been, you know, it’s like, a lot of different ways, like across the board, which is kind of exciting, right? And it’s been, I think, mostly from them, seeking it out. Or like, you know you, I know you as an advisor, is at least suggesting, like, is this something that you thought of and that folks being open to, but definitely like, you know, around recruitment, and that was, you know, not isolated to a single org, that was leadership coming together across the different organizations, and saying, like, Hey, I think we need to talk about this before we do this again, because it could have gone better, you know. And so it’s really about when we when we use, like, a circle practice to move to problem solving, like, generating ideas from the group and then trying to make commitments, like for next steps, so that it’s not, you know, like an advisor telling a leader or a group of leaders like this is what you need to do next, right? It’s them deciding how they want to move forward with, again, structure and support.And then also, just have worked with individual chapters with, you know, we have some bigger chapters here, and that can be challenging around where the direction of culture can, you know, starts to go even like clickiness, you know, within organizations. And so, you know, thinking of one instance where we kind of had to drill down with the e-board to get those folks right and on the first page and making some commitments to each other first, and then kind of bring that momentum to the whole chapter. So it was like a both and of like, you know, we don’t like how this is going, and can we change course or like change directions? And again, that’s amazing insight that like right really came from students.
IF: It’s their experience. So I think that’s what’s so important about some of the RJ things that we’ve done here at LMU is that it’s really the students wanting to do it because, it’s simple things, when you look at it, okay, the executive board needs to be on the same page, and they need to be cohesive. But that can’t happen if the students don’t want it to happen. So I feel like that’s really amazing, but also can be a little bit of a challenge too, when we have these great ideas of how we can help support them, but in the end, it really is their experience that they need to take ownership of too,
JW: Yeah, and uplifting their voices and I think I just want to acknowledge, like, we’re always doing assessment also in, like, preparation, right? Like, assessing whether you know this situation, this group could benefit from a restorative process. Like, is this tool right for what the need is? And then, like, especially if we’re bringing people together more around the problem solving or harm repair. Like, we don’t do that without, like, checking in with and kind of preparing people, setting expectations for what that conversation is going to be. So, you know, in the instance with an e-board like, it did take a little time right to meet with each of those folks, to get their story and understanding of what was happening and how the conversation could be productive, so that we didn’t, so that there was some agreement on, like, well, what are the questions we’re asking in that circle process that will help us move forward? Like, maybe there was something individually between two people that needs to be addressed before we could do the whole thing, so that preparation piece is really critical too.
IF: Yeah, definitely, because the expectation setting and they just, they need to understand beforehand, kind of what, what the potential outcomes can be as well,
JW: Yeah, and the limits of, like, what this process can offer. And, yeah, but…
IF: Awesome. Thank you. So transitioning a little bit, but sort of in the same topic. How do you think that a regular fraternity/sorority advisor maybe they don’t have someone like you who’s in their student conduct office who’s focused on restorative justice? What are some ways or ideas that you think that someone potentially could take away from this conversation, restorative justice in general, and actually apply that to their communities?
JW: Yeah, for sure. I mean, well, that was going to be my first piece. Is, like, before you decide that you know you don’t have someone on your campus, like, just check in to see. Like, could it be someone living in conduct or DEI or HR or something like that, does have an understanding or interest or some skills around this so, like, you know, taking a little time to figure out maybe, like, who should be included in this work, and considering, like, partnerships and collaboration, like, if there’s an interest to move this forward, like, even if it’s just like, two or three people that are like, hey, this could be something impactful and that we’re interested in, like, using that momentum, and then I think, you know, doing a little research. I mean, we do have a lib guide through our LMU library, just that can be helpful for people with, like, understanding, getting connected to resources around RJ. So just doing that little background reading. I mean, it would be amazing if people could find training to, to, like, have that first level of understanding of what this is. And so there are a lot of local community organizations that are doing RJ work or offering, potentially, like training. And then, you know, we’re part of, like, the restorative justice network of Catholic campuses. That’s one resource, or just, you know, the University of San Diego is another higher ed resource that is offering kind of restorative justice training in that regard. So, you know, that’s a little bit of a commitment and next step. But again, like the fundamentals of RJ, when it comes to harm repair, are around understanding harms and needs, right? So what? What are the needs that people have in the community? If, if harms have happened on that, more like, you know, proactive, you know, restorative lens, it’s, you know, how can we get to the root causes of issues that we might be seeing, really looking at how we’re building community? What tools do we have to do that? What does that look like across, you know, our community, across our chapters, where are we seeing the tensions and the rub points, and is there anything that we could be doing on the front end? What skills do people need? How are we talking about conflict? So I think there’s a lot. It’s just figuring out, doing a little bit of assessment around the entry point, or maybe. Each campus, and, you know, each advisor, like, for that matter, where are the gaps, and where could there be more growth and learning and understanding? And then, you know, we also just tried some things. I definitely need to throw that out there. This was an iterative process, and it still is right to make sure that it’s something that’s resonating with the community, so you may try something and not get it right the first time. And that’s okay, yeah, I just, I would say lastly, like, reach out, like, if there’s not that person on your campus, or you’re not finding a training like I was, I started with some research, but then felt ushered into this work by the community of people who were willing to talk to me about what they had done. So, you know, I’m offering us up, but I think we’re happy to be people who could help others in that way.
IF: Amazing. Thank you so much. Julia, is there anything else that you want to touch on regarding fraternities, sororities RJ, student conduct?
JW: I know, Isabella. I’m nervous that you open that door because, like, I could talk about this for hours, but I’m just, like, very inspired by I do feel like there’s like a growth in kind of, like, how I like to think that this is like, a movement, you know, definitely on the conduct lens, yeah, and so I’m hoping that, and I need to keep doing more research to figure out what that looks like, and for Fraternity and Sorority Life, specifically, because I just think there’s so much tremendous potential with that momentum to, like, look into this and bring each other along and, yeah, share best practices and try things, and then hear from students and involve student leaders in this work. So, so that’s kind of, you know, what’s on my mind is just excitement even that we’re having this conversation.
IF: Yeah, same here, and I think it also just shows all of the growth as well with partnerships between fraternity/sorority life offices and student conduct offices as well, and that’s something that we talk a lot about in AFA, and something that’s always sort of on our mind, and why we did this collaboration for this issue of perspectives with the Association of Student Conduct. But I, really, just grateful for you for this conversation as well. So thank you so much.
JW: Yeah, you’re welcome. And ASCA has great resources around RJ stuff. I mean, there’s great people. You are, you know, the original people looking at this too. So that I would just shout that out as well.
IF: Perfect. Well, thank you so much for this conversation.
JW: Thanks, Isabella. This is great.
